Mother Karna (18.12. 1897) was interviewed by Bitte the 20th February 1976 in Linköping, Sverige:
Certainly a long time has gone by since I was born. At first I want to tell about mammy and dad. They arrived at Australia once in the 1880es. Dad came to visit his uncle and mammy came to see her sister, who unfortunately just had passed away as she arrived, but luckily a kind woman took care of her. She was only 18 years old at that time. Dad came to his uncle and stayed there for about a couple of years, and as he had not been specking any Danish since he left DK, he then had to learn it once again. He had had a Danish ABC with him.
Dad was Exam. Pharm. from DK and took as I said out to Australia. He started together with an Australian Mr. Newth a chemists shop and those two lived together alone in the little town or suburban to Sydney which is called Berwood. A friend of dad told him that he was able to find them a housekeeper and that was mammy. After having stayed there for a while mom and dad wanted to get married but before that, mammy wanted to visit her coming parents in law in DK in order to get learning them. In the meanwhile dad took a trip to Western Australia to Coolgarli. At that time there was such a gold rush as they called it. When mammy returned they got married and moved to a terrace house in Sct. Johns Road at Glebe Point. I am born there. They moved in 1895 and I was born 1897. It was a nice place. From there I remember I saw, it was about 1900, those soldier who were on their way to the Boer War in Africa as they were hanging on a steam tram. Another thing I remember from that place is that The Danish Club had a feast and the ladies had sowed a flag of Dannebrog and sowed the name of the club on it and I was the one to present it. I remember I had a white collared bath or rather a bowl/tub full of apricots. It had to be carried to the Town Hall across the road right opposite our home. I am still able to see how they crossed the road with this bowl. I have also a picture where I present this flag. One more thing I remember from this house is the small boots or a small pair of shoes of Topsy. They were up on a mantle piece upstairs at the studio of dad.
How old were you when you moved from there? Topsy was one year and she is born 1900, so it has been 1901 and then I have been 4 years old. Then we moved further on at Gleb Point, ‘Bornholm’, 49 Leichardt Street, it was a wonderful blind alley which went straight to the water and we ourselves lived at the water. It was a wonderful home with garden and yard. The yard was of the finest sandstone and it sloped a little so it always was dry and without dust. The half of it was a garden of roses. The house itself was also very well arranged with all the comforts, as one have. We had an icebox and at that time it was raw ice with a filter. Greenhouse we had also. We had a bathroom with toilet. – A real toilet? Oh yes, and a white bath of enamel and the windows of the bathroom were coloured read and white mixed together. We had light of gas. We did not have electricity. We had a very nice big dining room, bedroom, living room, a studio of dad and dressing room underneath. We had also telephone and I still remember the number to-five-to. Upstairs we had five nice sleeping room and roof space and I don’t remember what else.
Did you have a maid? Yes, in the beginning we had one, but as we grew older we didn’t. In many years we had one whose name was Bessy and when she left she went to India as a missionary within the Army of Salvation. Then we had Cleo Jensen. Every winter she came down to us and studied at the University, and then we had one with the name Edith Twettle, whose home mom and dad was on visiting terms with. Edith came down every winter and helped mammy. They lived up in the mountains – we had also mountains and there was cold during wintertime. It was also up there I first saw snow and it was when I was on Christmas holyday 1906. It was also there I saw
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raspberry growing for the first time. They had also apples and pears. Strawberry or rhubarb I never saw until I came to her.
You mentioned the garden! Yes, the garden was turned to the south. First there was a big terrace surrounded by a wrought iron banister and pillars of sandstone, and a big flight down. There were four terraces and they were full of flowers except the two downstairs where there was a very fine lawn which couldn’t stand frost. I had never known to frost and degrees below 15 before I was 15 years old. There was inter alia Virginia creeper. On one of the terraces there was a fountain with different aquatic plants and turtles and in the two highest up cisterns, there was water lily, coloured water lily, and violets and freesia in a corner of the garden and for the rest lots of roses and pinks. All the terraces were reverted of these fine Figs which were tightly cut, and then we came down to the lowest terrace down to the water. There we had a big bathing hut. I think it was bigger than this living room of yours and broader as well. There was shower and changing room with benches. The ladies changed clothes inside and the men outside. When it was high tide we couldn’t reach the bottom at the steps – the shower was above the steps – and was it low tide there was no water at all within the barred fencing. The gaiting was necessary because we didn’t want to get the different things floating in the water such as slugs – it looked like a big black liver – and the big jellyfish. The grass here was not quite so nice because it got spoiled almost every 4th year or so when we had extreme high tide, exactly as you have had it this very winter. Then the water level could rise to more than a meter higher than the lawn, and then we swam in the lawn and that was very funny. Then we have the wall of the rock. The rock went further ahead and had been an extinct volcano and in its lava orchids and ferns grew. Outside at the water’s edge daddy had put some nice blocks of sandstone, and outside them again there was a big landing stage where to moor boats. When we had guests 3-4 motor boats might be moored to the garden. At that time we didn’t have cars, you know.
Didn’t you have little creeping things? No, not there we never saw anyone but cicadas were the only ones we saw. Snakes we first saw in the countryside. At Christmastime 1906 I was at the countryside and the last time I went there was Christmas 1911 – because it was our summer holyday – then I was supposed to go up to a place called Termworth. At that time there was an outbreak of Typhus. They were very much afraid of me being infected because the hospital was not able to take more patients. Then people were obliged to lie in tents in the field. I was not aloud to drink water or milk, I had only to drink boiled water with citrus and the weather was very warm. I was not aloud to go to the ‘little house’ which was placed a bit away. Up there out in the country side they didn’t have toilets at all. I was not allowed to go outside without wearing a hat because they were very afraid of me getting a touch of sunstroke. There was extremely hot. Then we went to the real home of Mrs. Mabel and her husband Mr. Laard – his name is spelled with an aa and not a o. She was born Josephsson and her parents lived in Termworth. They had picked me up at the train. I had been put on the train. It was one of these old fashion ones where one was lucked up so people at the footboard not were able to get on board. There was also a little toilet in each of these wagons. It went all right for me. As I just mentioned we were going to their place and I tell you it was really hot, so much that we had to lie in a corridor going right through the house during the night in order to get some air. It is the only time I ever have had it too hot. The only time you have had it too hot? Yes, we were almost not able to breathe. There we all lie transversely. The 10th day we had to leave at 1 o’clock at night for going 176 km by horse wagon.
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Where were you supposed to go? Far out to their farm yard at the plain called Kickpolly. It took us from 1 o’clock in the morning until 9.30 in the evening. We went by an ordinary spring cart. The horses were able to manage it because they had done the tour 10 days before and already rested for 10 days. It was very exciting for me to go out there. We experienced the most terrible weather. We saw it in the middle of the day when we had to rest beneath a viaduct to get a little shadow. Then they said now we must leave at once because before night we will get heavy weather, there was a tiny cloud far away and it reached us 8 o’clock in the evening. It stormed in the forest and the trees were falling down oh, then we reached the plain which was 30 m long. It was as if the sky was open. It was fantastic. Well, we reached the farm and I got permit to ride horses and as a whole I experienced quite a lot on that trip. It was also there I got my anxiety for snakes. There were some big iguanas, a sort of lizard which was able to swallow a hare, so you must understand that they were not ordinary lizards. It has the same colour as a snake and it has a two-piece tongue. I was going to pick some sunflowers in a field near by, it looked so beautiful completely yellow by sunflowers. Just as I entered the road something got moving and I jumped backwards. I said I don’t go there because there are some nasty things. No, they said, you aught not to be afraid of them. Then it showed up to be an iguana which ran up into a tree. Then again I should try to get into the field. As I went further on and wanted to enter a group of lots of beautiful sunflowers I suddenly saw the sun shining into something moving. It showed up to be a nest of snakes. I jumped up and went never back there anymore. I was cured and I never saw anyone. The first snake I ever saw was in Cassenzano at Tessin.
Do you have some special experiences you remember? There is something I never will forget. I have seen the comet of Halley. It shows up every 64 years. I have experienced it once more but I didn’t see it that time. But as a child it was the closest to the Earth. It was rumoured that if it came closer everything would be gone. We were waked at 3 o’clock in the morning. It was very strange. There was only a yellow tail to see, a strong yellow and very broad stripe from east to west. In the evening – out there it is dark at 6 to 7 o’clock in the evening and night at once – from my room I could see it as a real star on the sky with a tail as long as a ½ m in the sky, and I was able to see it for a week while it got lesser and lesser. It was just as if you see a cartoon with a star and its tail. That I have experienced.
Another great experience was when the American fleet visited Sydney. It was the first time such a thing should happen that Australia got visited by a fleet. Everything became illuminated. All the buildings looked decorative with flags. Bots and ships got decorated with electric things. Yes, and then there was Mr. Susa who was the military director for the orchestra. He had a concert in The Town Hall and there I heard him. He was only 1½ m from me while he played ‘Stars and Stripes’.
At that time he was not that known. Perhaps it was in the beginning of his career.
Then it was when Roald Ammundsen returned from the South Pole and came to Australia and his country-men did not want to do anything for him, then dad did. He invited him and his captain to our home together with some of our friends. As you know, that I have a picture of at home and then we went together with him to a big party at The National Geographical Society. By the way while I stayed at Kai in Stockholm I saw in a dictionary that Roald Ammundsen never had been to Australia! He should have been at Buenos Aires in Brazil! How strange!
Yes, then we had a visit by two Japanese training ships. Mom and dad were invited to see them and I was allowed to join them. I saw everything they had on board. They had decorated the ships so they were full up with Bunsai these old trees which can be hundreds of years old.
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Dad was appointed to General Consul 1904 and in 1905 he went to DK to thank you for the appointment and also to get his uniform. It was not possible to send it, he had to be measured. He had those fine white trousers and dark jacket. To the consul uniform belonged a triangular hat.
Around 1906 mammy became ill and had to be operated for gallstone by a certain professor who had arrived at the country. He had operated King Edward 7th for appendicitis. It was a private affair.
Mammy had great confidence in him and she entered the operating table by herself. Then she got operated. It was a very big site of operation with 83 stitches. I went together with dad to visit her and I was proud as a pope because I had got a new dress with high collar and puff sleeves and that to go together with dad was really something. The dress was made of tulle and raw silk. I had got up early in the morning in order to pick a pot full of flowers to mammy. Then we went by tram, dad in suit jacket and a hat of silk. I wore half gloves with the fingers free – 10 years old!
It was not always that easy with this Consul thing because there were many strange persons who came and some came connected to heritage and some came to get letters. I remember that some ladies and gentlemen one day came to comfort mammy and I wondered about what ever had happen? Then it showed up to be a man, who suddenly had gone crazy, had entered the office and threatened the life of dad. At last they moved him away and placed him at the mental hospital but it gave mammy quiet a turn. After some time he returned to dad’s office in order to give him two postcards one of the Danish King and another of the Queen, and those dad got framed. In 1908 the old King of Denmark died, and connected to that there should be a big memorial ceremony out there because he was the farther to the English Queen Alexandra. The big ceremony was held in the Cathedral. I remember I had a white dress with a black shawl.
In 1912 we were supposed to go back for two years. It was in the month of October. There was hold a sale of household goods.
I thought you said that you only were supposed to remove for two years? Well, we couldn’t take the furniture with us, and besides of that dad would be able to get some money. The house he still had. Later on when the house was going to be sold, unfortunately his solicitor cheated him so he did not get any money for it at all.
As I said, dad had to go home to DK with all these quartzy stones or what ever the sort was. We had a lot of stones with us besides our own luggage. The well known N.H. Andersen did not like that. He said that such a thing shouldn’t a Dane/Australian do. Later on it showed up that somebody else got advantage of it.
Well, then we arrived in DK. We took our departure at the 2. October, and we arrived 25th of November. At that time it lasted so long. Even at that time we had news every midday right out in the middle of the Indian Ocean. Suddenly there was calling in to German mobilization in 1912 and then people got very scared. We were told what we had to do in case something happened, but nothing else did happen. But later on it showed up that it had been a general mobilization in the entire Germany, thus it was before the First World War started. He knew what he wanted, The Emperor Wilhelm! Besides that nothing else happened during the sail to DK.
As we arrived in Copenhagen the chemist family from Hillerød came to pick us up. For the first six weeks we stayed at them in their home. At once your dad came to the chemist’s shop. It was so that Farther in Law the dentist’s family often associated with the chemist family. They also wanted to have a look at the new ones. At that time we got a real winter. I thought oh that cold. One day I came home with flowers of ice on a small branch to show mammy it and then all the others laughed terrible much at me. The cousins teased me quite a lot. I didn’t know better because I had never seen such a thing before. I remember that we were obliged to have a vaccination at the Chemist’s
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Shop, otherwise we were not allowed to join school. Dad surged for a house to live in and found the house belonging to the old Weissman. At that time in Hillerød there were only two houses with a bath. It was the fabric owner Weissmann and the other I don’t remember. Anyway it was not at the
Chemist’s Shop because they did not have a bath and the plumbing was rather old-fashioned. They had an earth closet. Very soon they got an ordinary lavatory but it was very dangerous to use it, because to enter the room and to lit the electric light one had to draw a chain in order to get light for tree minutes and when one left and drew this chain it might give you an electric shock. My cosine got one I remember. No, DK was at that time an undeveloped country.
We stayed there until dad bought the neighbour house and that was a couple of years before I got married.
What did granddad do for living? Dad went into partnership with a coal merchant in Copenhagen and he then went till and forth. Mammy got ill and was rather weak but apart from that we were all right. At first I served at Almann Olsen, a family where the wife came from West India and he came from the south of Jutland. There, I was for two years. Then I was home again to look after mammy. After some time I served at the Hirschsprung family also for a couple of years. It was at that time the Farmers Bank cracked. He lost 75.000 kroner.
When did you and dad get married? We got married 19th March 1926. I had always said that the last thing I want to be was to be a clergyman’s wife – married to a vicar. My old maternal aunt in Copenhagen had some young students living by her for instance a stud. Theol. She asked me if it was not something for me. Oh no, it is the very last I want to be. Then in addition it happened that I by chance lived in the same parish as he had done before me. That is why one never shall say a strong word.
What did you do in all the years between 1912 and 1926 when you and dad got married? Did you serve? I went a little to school and a little at home in order to take care of mammy. Dad, your dad, he went for a time on his own and then he returned. Well, then silence descended on us. Otherwise I had been thinking of going back to Australia if any chances had showed up. But it did not happen, something else came across. That’s the way things are.
When did grandma pass away? She passed away the 3 of November 1927 just after Torben was born. I only saw mammy once after we got married. It was in March when I came home to tell her.
She had asked us to come and visit her but unfortunately dad, Svend Aage, also had to take care of the parish of the neighbour in Mosbjerg, who had to go on sick leave. Every three or four year he had an operation on Finsen Hospital for reasons of suffering of Lupus. What is Lupus? It is Tuberculosis of the skin. At the end Svend Aage called the rural dean and asked him to come and take over his duties, because my dad had asked us to come so Svend Aage could bury mammy.
When we arrived Aunty Nelly sat beside mammy who was not able to say anything anymore. She lay there with closed eyes. As I placed Torben at her cheek, tears streamed down her face and at the same time Torben started screaming so awful, that I had to leave the room. It was as if the death fought in the one end of the house and the life fought in the other end. He screamed continuously. At the very moment he became calm the silence reigned in the room of mammy. It did not last long.
Bitte has done this interview, which is written out and translated into English by Kirsten Bjørg Reerslev the14th of November 2010.